Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019

Hansard ID: HANSARD-1323879322-109143

Hansard session: Fifty-Seventh Parliament, First Session (57-1)

Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019

Second Reading Debate

Debate resumed from 22 October 2019.

Ms SOPHIE COTSIS (Canterbury) (15:58):

:42 I lead for the Opposition in debate on the Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019. Labor will not oppose the bill; however, we have significant concerns that we may seek to address through amendments in the Legislative Council. The source of our concern is the lack of publicly available detail regarding the proposed Digital Restart Fund. For that reason, we have requested that an upper House inquiry look into the provisions of the bill. I am happy to report that the inquiry is being held by Portfolio Committee No. 6 – Transport and Customer Service. Submissions are now open and will close on 12 January 2020. I call on all members of the public who are interested in digital technology, the digital economy, digital policy and matters relating to public expenditure to make a submission to the inquiry. In particular, it is my hope that the Auditor‑General will provide some advice on whether the fund that the bill will establish is an appropriate way to manage significant public expenditure.

As I stated, Labor has significant concerns about the lack of detail in the bill. I note that this year's budget papers state that the fund will provide $100 million to fund whole‑of‑government digital transformation. However, no detail was provided regarding specific information and communications technology [ICT] systems that the Government plans to upgrade. In his second reading speech the Minister for Customer Service spoke about how a new model for funding whole‑of‑government digital service products will encourage agile delivery methods. However, he never named a specific ICT system that would be upgraded through this fund. Labor is concerned by this lack of detail because clause 7 of the bill provides that the Minister is to control and manage the fund. The Minister appears to be asking for $100 million in the form of a blank cheque that he could spend as he pleases.

Labor's concern is highlighted when one compares the bill to the Restart NSW Fund Act 2011. The bill and the Restart NSW Fund Act are very similar and it appears that the bill is modelled on that Act. The bill and the Act have the same structure and similar provisions. They both establish funds in the special deposit accounts to be used for particular purposes. However, section 6 of the Restart NSW Fund Act provides a very specific list of physical infrastructure projects that may be funded from the Restart NSW Fund. That list includes public transport, roads and hospitals. In contrast, clause 6 of this bill is extremely vague and broad. It provides that the fund may be used for projects that develop and implement digital and information and communications technology products or services that identify the actions required to be taken by an individual or on the individual's behalf in respect of significant events during the individual's life. The problem with this broad language is that the Minister could spend large amounts of taxpayer money on projects that satisfy this broad definition but deliver little practical utility for the public.

It should also be noted that there is an important difference between digital infrastructure and physical infrastructure: It is impossible to build a road or a hospital in secret. At some point, the existence of a physical infrastructure project will become known to the public, whether it is through the consultation process for an environmental impact statement or at the time a giant hole starts to be excavated. The same is not true for digital infrastructure. It is possible to spend large amounts of taxpayer money on digital projects without providing public details regarding the scope of a project or what it intends to achieve. That is why the Opposition is greatly concerned about this bill. We do not want the Minister to be able to spend up to $100 million on vaguely defined projects with little transparency or accountability.

Another point of comparison between this bill and the Restart NSW Fund Act 2011 is the role of Infrastructure NSW, which the Opposition supported. I spoke in support of the establishment of Infrastructure NSW at the time. Section 8 of the Restart NSW Fund Act provides that funding may be provided for projects that are approved by the Minister on the recommendation of Infrastructure NSW. In contrast, clause 9 of this bill provides that funding may be provided for projects that are approved by the Minister on the recommendation of the Secretary of the Department of Customer Service. While neither the secretary nor Infrastructure NSW is truly independent of government, it would appear an assessment by Infrastructure NSW is more robust.

I note that section 13 of the Restart NSW Fund Act required that Act to be reviewed within five years of its commencement. A review of the Act was prepared by NSW Treasury and tabled in Parliament on 12 September 2017. The review found the objectives of the Restart NSW Fund Act remained valid and the terms of the Act remained appropriate for achieving those objectives. On this basis, the review stated that no legislative changes were recommended. In relation to Infrastructure NSW, the review stated:

The Act confers [Infrastructure NSW] with the responsibility for independently assessing projects and making recommendations to the Treasurer for the use of Restart NSW funds ...

The independent role of [Infrastructure NSW] ensures that projects are fully assessed on their merit, including as to whether they improve productivity and growth in the State.

I note that Infrastructure NSW is not truly independent. Section 7 of the Infrastructure NSW Act provides that Infrastructure NSW is subject to the control and direction of the Premier in the exercise of its functions. However, section 8 (4) of the Infrastructure NSW Act 2011 provides that, if the Premier makes any amendments to strategies or plans submitted by Infrastructure NSW, the board of Infrastructure NSW may advise the Premier that it does not agree with the amendments and make that advice public. In this sense, Infrastructure NSW is more independent than the secretary of a department. I am particularly concerned that the Secretary of the Department of Customer Service also holds the role of Customer Service Commissioner, which I do not agree with. Assessment of a proposal by Infrastructure NSW should, at least in theory, make a proposal subject to expert professional analysis and advice. It is unclear why the Government has not followed the conclusions reached by NSW Treasury two years ago regarding the benefit of Infrastructure NSW assessing projects.

I assume it is possible that the Government does not believe Infrastructure NSW has the role of overseeing matters relating to digital infrastructure. However, that does not appear to be a view shared by Infrastructure NSW. Chapters 6 and 7 of the State Infrastructure Strategy produced by Infrastructure NSW in February 2018 deal with issues of digital connectivity, data usage and technological change. Another possibility is that proposals that could be funded by the fund are relatively small, whereas Infrastructure NSW generally provides advice on major infrastructure projects that have a total value of $100 million or more. However, if this is correct, I think it could still be the case that Infrastructure NSW should assess how the fund will be spent because the value of the fund will be at least $100 million.

A fundamental concern is that it is unclear why the fund is needed at all. If New South Wales government agencies wish to upgrade their digital infrastructure, they are already able to do so through normal budgeting and procurement processes. In 2016-17 the New South Wales Government spent $3 billion on ICT. This is worth around 4.3 percent of all New South Wales government expenditure. Almost 5c of every dollar spent by the New South Wales Government is for information and communication technologies.

The Government claims the fund is necessary to enable whole-of-government digital transformation. However, existing New South Wales procurement laws and policies already allow for a whole-of-government approach to the procurement of goods and services. The Opposition is concerned that clause 7 of the bill would allow the Minister to control and direct the fund outside the New South Wales Government's Procurement Policy Framework. The framework is a policy set by the NSW Procurement Board under part 11 of the Public Works and Procurement Act 1912 (NSW). Compliance with the framework is mandatory for all government agencies to which it applies.

The NSW Procurement Board comprises secretaries of departments and, while it is subject to ministerial control, it has statutory functions that include the objective of ensuring best value for money in the procurement of goods and services. If the fund is not subject to the framework, this could allow the Minister to fund projects without complying with policies that require procurement of ICT worth more than $10 million to go through gateway reviews and periodic checks in accordance with the New South Wales Government's ICT Assurance Framework or require the use of pre-qualified suppliers for ICT services. While it is likely the fund would be subject to the framework, this is not clear from the bill. I ask the Minister to address this issue in his reply.

An example of problems in relation to ICT procurement can be seen in a report published by the Independent Commission Against Corruption in January 2019 regarding the conduct of an ICT project manager at the former Department of Finance, Services and Innovation. Many of the functions of the former Department of Finance, Services and Innovation have been transferred to the new Department of Customer Service, which would be responsible for administering the fund. While the ICAC report relates to the conduct of one individual in 2016, it nevertheless provides a window into the types of problems that can arise in relation to ICT projects. This is a critical point and I hope that in his reply the Minister will be able to allay my concerns in relation to the ICAC report and recommendations.

ICAC found the project which was the subject of the report never had a business case prepared, had no formal budget or lines of budget reporting, had a short timetable for implementation, used a guesstimate for expected expenditures and could not be delivered by anyone within the former Department of Finance, Services and Innovation, which led to DFSI hiring an external contractor through a labour hire company. This contractor exploited weaknesses in DFSI's payment systems to have the department pay invoices to a company that he controlled. I stress that this has nothing to do with the Minister as the Minister was not involved in it. I believe the Minister would also be concerned about this matter because it occurred within his portfolio responsibilities at the time. A lot of those roles have been transferred to the Department of Customer Service.

It is important that ICAC's recommendations are taken seriously with respect to the function of this fund. Hopefully the inquiry will make equivalent recommendations. I want to stress that point. The ICAC report included 15 recommendations for DFSI to improve procurement and project management, and the former DFSI provided an action plan that committed to implement these measures. As responsibility for these matters appears to have transferred to the new Department of Customer Service, I ask the Minister in reply to provide detail regarding the status of the department's implementation of those recommendations. If the former DFSI provided an action plan, does that action plan transfer over to the Department of Customer Service? Will the Department of Customer Service implement the plan?

On page 5 of the ICAC report handed down in January 2019 it is stated that there was an investigation by ICAC concerning an ICT contractor working on an ICT project at the New South Wales DFSI who dishonestly and partially exercised his public official function in exchange for a financial benefit. Anybody who is interested can read the report. As I stated, ICAC made 15 recommendations. Will those recommendations be adopted by the new Department of Customer Service in relation to the Digital Restart Fund? I ask the Minister to provide me with that information in his reply. Recommendation 10 reads:

That the NSW Procurement Board formally communicates to agencies that the SCM0020 and SCM0005 schemes are not to be used in lieu of the SCM0007 scheme.

I would like a response to that recommendation. Recommendation 11 refers to the DFSI. Again, does that mean the Customer Service department? It reads:

That DFSI develops a system for reporting and/or escalating red flags related to projects and procurement activities such as:

the use of multiple purchase orders for the same supplier with respect to the same project or activity

purchase orders being raised after the receipt of invoices

purchase orders with dollar values corresponding to amounts that are just below those for which key processes (such as the Procure IT framework) apply.

There are 15 recommendations and I would like to hear from the Minister about what the Government is doing with respect to them. In relation to matters of oversight and transparency, I note clause 13 would require the Minister to provide a report relating to the fund each year. The clause would also require the report to contain an audit by the Auditor‑General and the audit would be required to include whether the payments from the fund have been made in accordance with the bill. While this is welcome, it is also problematic.

As I have noted, the terms of the bill are extremely broad and vague. The Auditor-General would not be required to certify that projects had been appropriately identified for funding or whether the funded projects had met their objectives. Instead, all the bill would require the Auditor-General to certify is that the projects funded satisfied the extremely broad and ill‑defined criteria provided by clause 6 of this bill. I also urge the Auditor‑General to make a submission to the inquiry into this bill.

Another of our concerns relates to cybersecurity. The bill is geared toward improving services from a customer service perspective. However, it does not deal with issues of cybersecurity and privacy. Labor believes that if $100 million is going to be spent on digital infrastructure and services, there should be a strong focus on cybersecurity and privacy. We know what happened with respect to the Minister's office prior to the last election. I have spoken about it and an amendment was moved to the Fines Bill relating to what happens with data breaches. That is very concerning as governments across Australia and around the world move to digital and online services, transforming the way we get our information.

The concerns Labor has about who can access data are widely held. A report published by the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner in 2017 found that 69 per cent of Australians claimed at the time to be more concerned about their privacy when using the internet than they were five years ago. That report also found that 83 per cent of Australians believe their privacy risks are greater when dealing with an organisation online compared with other means. Most concerning was that 16 per cent of Australians stated that they would avoid dealing with a government agency due to privacy concerns. During budget estimates we asked questions about spending. At a hearing on 29 August 2019, the Commissioner of the NSW Police Force, Michael Fuller, APM, stated that he needed more money to deal with cybercrime. Specifically, he said:

... every year I go back to the ERC and I never argue for less, I promise you that; I always argue for more money for New South Wales police to continue to provide the highest level of service for the people of New South Wales. In saying that, whilst the $583.6 million is fixed for the 1,500 officers over the four years, I will still go back doggedly every year and argue why we need more money—to look at cybercrime and other sorts of environmental changes, whether it is more police in the bush, rural crime, whatever that may be.

We do need more money to tackle cybercrime and Labor supports what Commissioner Fuller has said. According to the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission, cybercrime is estimated to cost the Australian economy up to $1 billion each year. We ask the Minister in reply to explain why the Government is investing $100 million for vaguely defined "digital transformation" when the police commissioner is saying that he does not have enough money and he needs more for cybercrime. We understand that there needs to be digital transformation. Federal Labor technology shadow Minister Clare O'Neil yesterday gave an address to the Consumer Policy Research Centre conference. She said:

Australian public policy has fallen too far behind with respect to the pace of technological change.

I concur with her and support her statement. She went on to say:

For many Australians technology is one of the biggest issues in their lives. On average we spend six hours a day online. Many of us would spend more time on the Internet than we do with the people we love most in the world. As a parent, I know that the issues related to kids and tech are pretty much in constant discussion in households around the country.

Hear, hear! I absolutely support that in relation to being a parent. Kids using electronics rather than playing, conversing and socialising is one of our issues. But this is how we are living now and will be into the future as we continue to use technology. Clare O'Neil went to say:

When the Parliament does talk about technology, the conversation tends not to be a quality one. We usually talk about tech in the context of a flare-up. A bill is introduced which relates to a pretty specific area of technology which forces a truncated and urgent discussion.

She is absolutely right. Raising big and unfamiliar policy problems in the context of specific and urgent decisions is not conducive to exploring the issues properly. We saw that during the debate on encryption and metadata, when even some of the people advocating for the legislation did not seem to understand it properly. Shadow Minister O'Neil is saying is that we need a sustained public conversation about how we are going to manage this massive change in our lives. She makes some important points. I accept that this process will be continuous, particularly in terms of digital infrastructure projects. However, we need to hold the inquiry to look at the expenditure. The inquiry should look also not only at value for money but also to ensure that we include people in whatever product is designed through the digital fund.

I have spoken many times in this place about the number people in our community who feel digitally excluded because they do not have online access. They include people from multicultural backgrounds. Everything is online, so if you do not have a computer or are not computer literate—or if you do not speak and read in your own language—it is difficult and quite intimidating. It means that access to government services may not be available to those who need it most. We recognise that the Government will be critical of our position. We anticipate Government members will say that we are raising issues to try to frustrate their efforts to act like an agile and innovative start‑up. My concern is that the Government is not an agile start-up with a goal to disrupt old ways of doing business. The New South Wales Government is responsible for things including health and public safety. The consequences of poor decision-making can be matters of life and death.

In his second reading speech the Minister described the fund as, "providing seed funding that is akin to a private sector venture capital firm". The Minister stated that the fund will provide seed funding for prototypes to test if an idea meets customers' needs and if it does it will grow that funding gradually over time, rather than having a big bang release. The problem with that approach is that there is nothing to stop the Minister from approving 20 prototypes worth $5 million each, only for each experiment to fail. That would squander $100 million without any tangible benefits for the public. That is why the Government should clearly and publicly identify the systems that should be upgraded, specify the outcomes that those upgrades should achieve and either develop the capacity to develop and undertake the development in house or undertake a normal procurement process to select a suitable provider that can provide the service or infrastructure required. The argument that the pace of technology change justifies significant deviation from normal budgeting and procurement processes does not stack up.

I refer the Minister back to the ICAC report. We need to have a conversation about what the Federal shadow Minister for Innovation, Technology and the Future of Work, Clare O'Neil, said in her speech. We cannot just waste money. We need to ensure that government is held accountable and is open and transparent, particularly when it involves spending significant amounts of money on systems that could impact on the privacy and safety of citizens in New South Wales and, at the same time, exclude the people I mentioned earlier. The extent of the concerns raised by the Opposition is a consequence of the lack of detail and the ambiguity surrounding how the fund will be spent. We will not sign off on a $100 million blank cheque. We need the information. We need details, project time lines and exact information. I am very pleased with the inquiry that has been established. As I indicated, the Opposition will not oppose the bill but we will ensure a rigorous process around its spending and the projects it funds.

Ms GABRIELLE UPTON (Vaucluse) (16:26):

:38 I am delighted to support the Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019. The New South Wales Government is transforming the way that services are delivered to our citizens. I thank the Minister for Customer Service. He is transforming the way that government works behind the scenes. It does not matter to the citizens of New South Wales that there are three departments involved in delivering an important service to them. They should not have to worry about that; it should be a seamless process for them. The Digital Restart Fund and the work of the Minister for Customer Service in this space are central to that objective. We are designing what we do around outcomes, not inputs. That is why we won the last election. We made a promise to our community to deliver and to get things done. We are keeping that promise.

The Digital Restart Fund supports the promise we made to the community. It was interesting to hear from the shadow Minister about the ICAC report. I understand that she is concerned that those learnings be brought into the administration and governance of this fund. That is a perfectly good point to make. But I am disappointed and caution Labor—even though it is supporting the bill—to look beyond those concerns to the vision and the customers who are at the centre of what this bill will deliver. The bill has a much broader purpose. It is not only about those aspects mentioned by the shadow Minister but also about making the government services we deliver easier to understand and closer to home, with a better customer experience of government across the board. That is reflected in the fact that now, post election, we have the Department of Customer Service and a Customer Service Commissioner.

Even if people do not understand all of our departments, clusters, ministries and portfolio allocations, they still understand customer service. It is a different way of working. The Government's promise around that won the last election. We will continue to deliver on that promise. This bill is evidence of that. The Government has delivered and will continue to deliver on the hard infrastructure promises that it made—$93 billion over forward estimates. We are delivering on our promises through a range of initiatives, including this bill and a number of other projects. Personally, I have been involved in delivering a new way of approaching research and development across government. However, at the same time we must deliver on the soft infrastructure necessary across government, including digital services. A couple of weeks ago I visited Data61, which is an offshoot of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation [CSIRO]. I am sure many other members know about the wonderful work of CSIRO and Data61.

When I visited Data61 it had a piece of software that could transform government. A number of departments are involved in that technology. The technology creates a digital replica of our cities. It shows all the parts that make up a city, including the bus routes, where the plumbing is under the city and where the buildings are. It enables planners and anyone else in government to interact with that data and foresee what impacts different planning and other decisions would have. It is transformative. Planners will no longer have to wait to find out about the impact of what they are building until after they build it; they will see it in real time. Those are big changes that will help us plan better across government. But this bill will also have an impact at a personal level. The bill is very clear in terms of its purpose and it will have a real‑life, personal impact.

One of the projects that the Digital Restart Fund will continue to support is the work being done around citizens' interactions with government when a loved ones passes away. That is a life-changing event for anyone, even if it comes as a part of life's journey for those who are more elderly. When someone dies there are so many forms to complete and so many agencies to notify. People are doing all that during a time when they are grieving and are also dealing with parts of the community that are outside of government, including banks, neighbours and funeral directors. The Government has set its mind to make that experience better and more seamless for people at the most difficult times of their lives. That is such a worthy objective. I commend the bill to the House because it is about better serving our community so that they do not have to struggle with government, which, historically, they have in so many different ways.

The Service NSW centre at Ebley Street, Bondi Junction—which is just outside of my electorate—is part of a major commercial hub that is a magnet for anyone who wants to do anything outside of the CBD. The centre is open Monday to Saturday. The residents of my electorate tell me that it is a one-stop shop for all their important administration. People go there when they lose their wallet, when they get married, when they plan for retirement and when they want to access the Active Kids and Creative Kids vouchers, which have been such a success and very warmly welcomed by the whole community. They will all be assisted at Service NSW centres. People can register their beloved pets on the NSW Pet Registry and enrol their children in school.

Small businesses—which are the centre of the economic development of our communities—are also looked after through the Easy to Do Business program, a free service offered to a number of industries. The program provides help in a personal way to set up businesses. We recognise that those small businesses create jobs across our communities, which is how we all lift ourselves up to be better people and contributors to our communities. I could go on. I am a great fan of Service NSW, as are many members of this House, including Labor members, who extol the virtues of Service NSW on a regular basis. Labor should have a closer look at the broad purpose of this bill. The member for Canterbury and shadow Minister said that Labor will not oppose the bill, but the approach it is taking misses the wood for the trees.

I know that the Minister will take on board the shadow Minister's points about probity and governance because that is the kind of Minister he is. And they are important points. But I think the shadow Minister is missing the point. This fund is going to present the best face of government and experience to the citizens of New South Wales, who elect us to do just that. This Government, under the leadership of Premier Gladys Berejiklian is doing that in spades. This bill is a transformative way of doing IT projects across government and forcing departments to work with one another and to achieve an outcome, thereby serving better the citizens of New South Wales. I commend the bill to the House.

Mr JAMES GRIFFIN (Manly) (16:34):

:46 I thank the Minister for Customer Service for introducing the Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019. The Digital Restart Fund is a fund for the people of New South Wales present and future. Citizens expect their hard-earned taxpayer dollars to be handled transparently and effectively. For the benefit of the Opposition, I will reiterate that the purposes of the fund are to support whole-of-government citizen journeys and events, support solutions that create cost savings and consistent user experiences for our customers, achieve modernisation of our ageing systems to reduce the risk of failure, and reduce the overhead costs of maintaining them.

The concerns about this bill expressed by the Opposition reflect the Opposition's old‑world thinking when it comes to digital infrastructure and the role of government in fostering the opportunity for innovation and the partnership between a government that has the means and ability to support and fund important innovation with the private sector, Australian‑based companies. In the same way that citizens of this State expect—and see—the Government investing month on month in our physical infrastructure, such as roads, rail, schools and hospitals, they would expect the Government to invest in digital infrastructure. All members in this place would be aware of the success of Service NSW, a one‑stop shop to replace the need for customers to go to a number of government departments. More recently the digital driver licence has had a terrific uptake across New South Wales.

Comments were made earlier in this debate about cyber security. The Opposition needs to understand that when a small business or sole trader needs to engage with a government department there can be one point of entry or many points of entry to achieve the desired outcome with great ease. That is one example why the Digital Restart Fund is needed and expected by the people of New South Wales. It will create significant efficiencies by changing the way in which information and community technologies [ICT] and digital investments are planned, implemented and operated in New South Wales. The fund will assist in generating benefits more quickly, reducing duplication in investment and eliminating inefficient legacy systems.

A big opportunity for efficiency is in the modernisation of the New South Wales Government's legacy technology systems. A system that is "legacy" is one that is no longer using modern, up-to-date technology. Legacy systems include critical platforms that underpin day-to-day activities like issuing licences, policing or recording patient information in hospitals. Some legacy systems have history dating back over three decades. Challenges arise from having a variety of systems across a variety of government departments and agencies. In some circumstances the systems will not speak to one another. So in transporting data from one agency to another to achieve an outcome for a customer—whether that is in licencing, policing or the sharing of patient records—having legacy systems which in some circumstances are 30 years old presents the challenges that this bill seeks to overcome. To put it in layman's terms, people would not expect to have software in their own homes that had not been updated for 30 years. On a larger scale that is analogous to what the Government is seeking to change.

Legacy technology has been inherently expensive and problematic for governments and industry around the world. Born of a bygone era, legacy technology is expensive to run and difficult to modify, making it hard to deliver services that meet the raised expectations of customers. Legacy is a known barrier to the introduction of modern technology and all the benefits that flow. For example, many paper forms still in circulation today cannot be easily digitised because it would be too costly and risky to change the legacy systems that sit underneath. I am glad to see that seed funding to modernise legacy investments is one of the four categories prioritised in the Digital Restart Fund. By seed funding these investments the risk will be lower and customers will see improved services more quickly as new technology is delivered incrementally, based on customer needs.

Tackling this problem will provide more flexible and efficient foundations on which better services can be delivered for customers whilst freeing up public funds to be spent, for example, on hospitals and schools. The fund will help with projects like the modernisation of the Government Licensing System. This legacy system is responsible for more than 120 different licences in New South Wales and holds the details of more than 14 million licences. For sparkies or chippies, the Government Licensing System underpins the application process, the reviews and decisions and the record of licences. Modernising this legacy system will not only provide stable foundations for the future but also deliver many customer-centric improvements, such as making application processes simpler, saving citizens and businesses time, requiring customers to tell government only once when details change, and making more licences available digitally through the Service NSW app on mobile devices.

The Digital Restart Fund allows this whole-of-government transformation to be delivered, along with many more customer-centric initiatives. These new arrangements about how the Government plans, invests and governs ICT and digital initiatives and how it replaces its legacy systems with modern whole-of-government platforms will result in significant savings and better service delivery for customers. The Digital Restart Fund will make this happen. It is a fund for the people of New South Wales, present and future. The importance of the role of the Digital Restart Fund cannot be understated in the transformation of the Government's ICT program and the service it provides to customers. This is an important bill, which I support. I commend the bill to the House.

Mr MARK COURE (Oatley) (16:42):

:28 I begin by thanking the Minister for Customer Service for introducing the Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019. As we heard from the previous speaker, the member for Manly, the proposed reforms establish a fund to deliver significant whole-of-government citizen journey improvements. We have seen a lot of this already with the creation five years ago of first‑class customer service delivery in New South Wales through Service NSW centres. This bill will reduce the unnecessary spending on duplicate capabilities, contribute to reducing the risk of government-wide legacy technologies and promote capability uplift across every New South Wales government department.

The fund is available to projects in the following categories: firstly, customer journeys—projects that deliver change for customers' experiences; secondly, State digital asset projects that create savings and consistent user experiences; thirdly, agencies' digital investment and legacy modernisation, as was discussed by the member for Manly with respect to seed funding; fourthly, projects that support agency digital innovation and ICT modernisation; and, fifthly, enabling capabilities—uplifting digital skills to better support customer service. The Opposition supports this bill. I note the contribution to the debate by the member for Canterbury, who put forward a number of good points. The Department of Customer Service [DCS] has been working closely with industry, New South Wales government clusters and, of course, the Commonwealth Government to transform the delivery of customer service across New South Wales and Australia. This fund was recently endorsed by the Secretaries Board and approved by Cabinet. The funding process has been co‑designed with—

Ms Lynda Voltz:

Otherwise it wouldn't be in the Parliament.

Mr MARK COURE:

That is right, you are spot on. That is why you are here. It has been co‑designed with clusters and is continuing to develop and evolve. The DCS, the Department of Premier and Cabinet and Treasury continue to refine the way these proposals are developed, assessed and assured, with processes being detailed in supporting policy. The bill includes these new arrangements relating to how the Government plans, invests in and governs information and communications technology [ICT] and digital initiatives. Replacing its legacy systems with modern, whole-of-government platforms will certainly result in significant savings and, of course, better service delivery for customers. The Digital Restart Fund will make this happen. It is a fund for the people of New South Wales. I thank the Minister for Customer Service for introducing the bill to the Parliament. Citizens expect their hard‑earned taxpayer dollars to be handled transparently and efficiently.

A big opportunity for efficiency is the modernisation of the New South Wales Government's legacy technology system, a system that is no longer using modern, up‑to-date technology. These systems include critical platforms that underpin day-to-day activities, such as issuing licences and policing, some of which have history dating back over three decades. This type of technology unfortunately has been quite expensive and problematic for governments of both political persuasions and for industry around the world. It is expensive to run and difficult to modify, making it hard to deliver services that meet the expectations of customers. I am glad to see that seed funding to modernise legacy investments is one of the four categories prioritised in the Digital Restart Fund. By seed funding these investments, not only is the risk low but customers will see improved services more quickly as new technology is created and delivered based on customer needs. Tackling this problem will provide more flexible, efficient foundations on which services can be better delivered for customers whilst freeing public funds to be spent on hospitals and schools.

As I mentioned before, part of these proposed reforms is to establish a fund to deliver a significant whole‑of‑government citizen journey improvement. This will reduce unnecessary spend on duplicated capabilities and contribute to reducing the risk of government-wide legacy technologies, to promote that uplift across the government and to build on the customer service experience. We have seen that in the Minister's own portfolio, with delivery over the years of Service NSW centres across New South Wales. Certainly I have one at Hurstville and hopefully we will see one in Roselands very soon.

Ms Sophie Cotsis:

Tell us when.

Mr MARK COURE:

That is a surprise for you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER:

Order! Members will cease interjecting.

Mr MARK COURE:

That is for me to know and for you to find out. You never know what might happen in the next sitting.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER:

Order! I remind the member for Oatley to direct his comments through the Chair. Members will not have a casual chat across the Chamber. The member for Canterbury will come to order.

Mr MARK COURE:

The fund is available to projects in the following categories: customer journeys, State digital assets, agency digital investment and legacy modernisation—seed funding, in other words, enabling those capabilities and uplifting the digital skills to better support customer service. The New South Wales Government is committed to further improving this customer service experience by better integrating the way in which existing and new government services are designed, delivered, implemented and assured, with particular focus on ICT services. The establishment of a fund of up to $100 million, I believe, with an expenditure profile of $50 million in 2019‑20 and $50 million in 2020‑21, is to be funded by a reduction to cluster ICT expenditure. I could be here all day talking about this bill. It is a very hot topic. It is a sexy topic. Can I use that word?

Ms Lynda Voltz:

Just like you, Mark.

Mr MARK COURE:

I acknowledge that interjection from the member for Auburn.

Mr Nathaniel Smith:

What was the interjection?

Mr MARK COURE:

I will not repeat it: I am too embarrassed. The Digital Restart Fund will make this happen. It is a fund for the people of our great State of New South Wales. I support the bill.

Mr NATHANIEL SMITH (Wollondilly) (16:50):

:19 I speak in support of the Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019. I thank the Minister for Customer Service for introducing the bill. I also congratulate the Minister on the success and continued excellence in service provided by the Service NSW team. Some members may not know that in regional areas we have the mobile Service NSW bus. It has been very successful in areas like Warragamba, Thirlmere, Tahmoor and areas in my electorate that are more remote.

Ms Sophie Cotsis:

You need a centre, not a mobile office.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER:

The member for Canterbury will come to order.

Mr NATHANIEL SMITH:

To inform the member for Canterbury, through the Chair, there is a Service NSW centre in Mittagong that is extremely successful, but in a large rural area the mobile bus is an efficient way—

Ms Sophie Cotsis:

You need more than one.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER:

The member for Canterbury will come to order.

Ms Lynda Voltz:

You cannot argue that, can you?

Mr NATHANIEL SMITH:

The bus is extremely successful. It allows people in Warragamba and other villages around my electorate to access information about cost‑of‑living savings and measures. There are some fantastic savings to be made. The Minister is doing a magnificent job in promoting it. The mobile Service NSW bus is regularly visiting around my electorate. It has been a great success and I look forward to having more of them next year. I also will have a mobile electoral office in a van, bringing government to the people. The Government is bringing a great service in Service NSW to the people. The members for the electorates of Canterbury and Albury can feel reassured—

Ms Lynda Voltz:

I am the member for Auburn, not Albury.

Mr NATHANIEL SMITH:

Yes, you are the member for Auburn. The Digital Restart Fund is a fund for the people of New South Wales, present and future. Traditionally, investment has leaned towards specific and one‑off projects that do not support whole-of-government priorities or outcomes. The current model requires traditional business cases that have proven to create false certainty and encourage large programs and complex methodologies. They are time consuming, carry significant risk and are out of step with contemporary digital delivery and for customers they cause a disjointed service delivery.

To address these issues, the Digital Restart Fund will support the delivery of significant whole‑of‑government application improvements and reduce unnecessary expenditure or duplicate services. This will contribute to reducing the financial and operational risk of government-wide legacy technologies and promote capability uplift across clusters to enable them to deliver better benefits to the citizens of New South Wales. This fund will reshape the way information and communication technology is financed in New South Wales.

Traditionally, practices around investment have often led to ineffective solutions, with limited cross‑agency funding for common platforms and a lack of in-house capability development. The fund will address these shortcomings, cutting through complexity and enabling the Government to provide a more consistent and accessible customer service experience. Our aim is to avoid duplication and waste and to better reuse government data, content and systems. The fund has been established with $100 million, with a projected expenditure profile of $50 million in 2019‑20 and $50 million in 2020-21. It is being funded by a reduction in cluster information and communication technologies [ICT] expenditure. This centralised fund will ensure a holistic, transparent and united approach to ICT and digital investments.

Stringent, centralised governance and oversight mechanisms are also in place to ensure funded projects are delivered on time and on budget and maintain a necessary customer service delivery focus. Centred on the concept of supporting customers with smart, simple and seamless services, the fund moves away from the approach of funding large capital projects where benefits may not be realised for many years. The fund is designed to allow focus on smaller, boutique solutions. The products and teams are focused on delivering better services linked to the life events and customer experiences that matter to people and that are known, through customer research, to drive higher customer satisfaction. The new approach, solidified through the Digital Restart Fund, will reduce unnecessary spend on duplicated capabilities and contribute to reducing the financial and operational risk of government-wide legacy technologies. Small seed funding for projects will be preferenced to allow for early discovery and exploration stages supported by iterative, modern and multi-disciplinary approaches.

The Digital Restart Fund will fund projects that fall into the following categories: Life journeys, life events—initiatives that deliver changes that improve citizen experience across end to end journeys, with faster time to market; State digital assets—initiatives that create cost savings and consistent user experience through increasing agencies' use of core and common ICT components; legacy modernisation—initiatives that support agency digital innovation, ICT modernisation, and reusable components; enabling capabilities including, but not limited to—portfolio management, digital capability uplift and cyber security coordination. This new approach will focus on priorities, speed things up, reduce risk and save money whilst renewing citizens' faith in government.

In summary, the Digital Restart Fund will enable: greater transparency in digital and ICT investment; collaborative partnerships between government clusters and industry; customers to "tell us once"; acceleration of investments in government's digital priorities by promoting and administering an agile, modern delivery approach; and a reduction in risks associated with ICT and digital investments through modern funding approaches and increased governance. The member for Manly would know how important these things are, as he has worked in the digital world with social media and online. As I said before, the Minister is doing a magnificent job in this area. I fully support Service NSW and it is doing a terrific job of servicing the people of Wollondilly. I commend the bill to the House.

Mr ADAM CROUCH (Terrigal) (16:58):

:12 I speak in debate on the Digital Restart Fund Bill 2019. From the outset I commend the Minister and his staff who have done another sterling job on this legislation. The purpose of the bill is to reshape the way in which information and communications technology services are funded and delivered in New South Wales by reducing complexity and duplication, minimising wastage and by keeping the customer's needs at the forefront and making them paramount. This cross-cluster funding model will prioritise modern digital solutions that improve the delivery of customer services, whilst also providing a positive economic benefit to the great State of New South Wales.

I acknowledge those who have spoken on this legislation before me: the member for Manly, who is in the Chamber, the member for Wollondilly, and others. We have seen the transformation of New South Wales through the advancement of digital technology when working with the Government. That is nowhere more evident than in the outstanding work done by Service NSW. I have stood in this Chamber many times, as all members have, singing the praises of Service NSW and what a great job it has done in how people now perceive working with government. It is a pleasurable experience to walk into a Service NSW office. There is a fantastic team at Erina, led by Robyn, who is outstanding. She goes out to the community and meets with people at retirement villages to talk about cost-of-living savings. Tiffany runs the Cost of Living savings program at Erina and has delivered more than $400,000-worth of cost-of-living savings since we implemented the program. Now they are adopting the digital driver licence, and a lot of people are very excited about that on the Central Coast.

Debate interrupted.